ADHD of the Christian Kind - List Archives: Evaluation

Evaluation

NOTICE: The following posts are taken from the Christian ADHD List. The names, e-mail addresses and locations of all parties involved have been removed to protect their privacy. The posts have been used with permission, but are copyrighted by ADHD of the Christian Kind.

"I don't know about all this. She thinks he is ADD/ADHD in only some areas and it is masked in part by his intelligence and that is why he is not a "typical" case. That I can readily agree with. But then on a personal level, I know that many of the boys I have come in contact with, either through people I know or through this loop are very intelligent, like at least half from my own experience of the ADD/ADHD boys are somewhat gifted in some areas. (I don't mean to leave out girls, I just don't know any). Of course, I never think of these things to bring up until after the fact. "

I think that is pretty typical. A lot of ADD/ADHD boys are very very smart and have high IQ's. The problem they have is that they cannot attend long enough in a classroom situation to show their high IQ's. I really do not know what _____'s IQ is because he wasn't tested in mental ability just impulsivity; but he is very smart and picks up new subjects and ideas very quickly. When in private school he had to do scripture memorization as part of his school work. I never helped him because I never knew what it was, he just always knew it. I think the reason you don't notice this type of pattern in girls is because *typically* girl with ADD/ADHD tend to be dreamers rather than activity oriented. You don't really notice them as much because they are being quiet and are out of the way, the teacher notices that they are not learning or doing as well as expected but it is not as obvious to everyone else that there might be a problem.

_____ had his first appointment here in _____. The doctor is a civilian so we aren't dealing with the military so much. She decided from everything that I told her to start from scratch!!!! Good deal. We are going to take him completely off everything for a few days to do the Conner evaluation and she is going to probably give him the neurological and all that good stuff to rule out everything for once and for all!!!! Then she is going to score the evaluations and decide if he should be seen on post or sent downtown to the devlopmental pedatricians and child psychs in town. I feel that is the best thing right now since he has never really been fully evaluated and his two doctors in _____ were pretty drug happy......... I'm feeling pretty confident right now. Please pray that they can come to a proper and useful diagnosis finally for _____.

About _____, yes when he was tested in preschool he was diagnosed as being neurologically impared, meaning there is no enviromental, emotional or behavioral reason for his problems, but they are medical. I've been doing alot of thinking about _____ lately and about his learning, trying to be more observant to things and I discovered something interesting, I'd appreciate hearing responses to this from all of you, _____ KNOWS what sounds the letters are supposed to make, I know this because he can figure out how to spell a word, but he isn't able to read it just yet. Also, he'll have the word big, for example, he'll sound it out, bbbbbbiiiiiiggggg, figure out what letters, he'll even say, "B" and then go to write or type a d. I've always maintained that he is dyslexic, this to me just further confirms it, what do you all think? Also, is this something the neurologist could help me with? And should I bring up the whole bedwetting thing?

I still fill like I am in limbo, I still don't have the answers I want, I guess I just want too much!! Dr. _____s says that he does not feel that _____ is depressed, or ODD, that he behavior is the result of his reactions to the Paxil and Tenex. He has taken him off of it, (which I had been weaning him from, as I did not feel that it was working) and he started him on Ritalin (sp?) 20 mg, the slow released tablets. He takes one in the morning, and that is supposed to last all day.

He is very quiet now in the mornings, almost zombie like, and he is complaining that his head hurts more (he suffers from migraines, and now he has nothing for them), his stomach is upset, and he does not want to sleep at night, but he wants to sleep late in the morning. He says he doesn't sleep all night, that he tosses and turns, constantly waking up.

I took him to our family doctor today, but I had to leave, letting my husband talk to the doctor, (I had to go to work from the office, and, as usual, the doctor was running behind) and so I learned very little. I also called the counseling center, and told the nurse there what _____ was feeling, and she spoke with the doctor and called me back and told me that he wanted to keep _____ on it for at least another week (he has been on it for 4 days now) and see if the symptoms wore off. If they did not, then he was going to put him on the regular Ritalin, broke up in to different doses through out the day.

_____ sees his therapist on the 22ed of Oct, and we will discuss again about _____ having ODD, or being depressed. He felt that he was depressed, and could definately be manic depressed, or ODD. I taped _____ in one of his "temper fits" today, where he was yelling and carrying on, and telling what he felt and thought, and I am going to take it with me, and I want Dr. _____ to hear it, _____ is always on his best behavior there at his office, so I don't think he really understand what he is like at home.

_____ asked how we are doing with _____'s evaluation. It is still up in the air. I was really thinking we would have something more definite by now and that is why I was wondering if most evaulations take this long--over 5 hours. She did tell me last week that she thinks that I have already done all that I could from trying to help _____ with behavior management things at home. My husband wants to go talk to her next; please pray that God would grant him wisdom over that meeting, as that is probably where it will be decided if any medication will be tried.

We (my husband and I) went to see _____'s therapist yesterday, and had a discussion over what he had. We do not like the idea of labeling him, or any kid, but they help you to know what is wrong, and how to treat it, as each takes a different way of handling. We had tentatively diagnosed _____ as ADHD, slight possibility of Tourettes, OCD, and also having a impulse control disorder (he must always be in charge, so we have battle of the wills a lot!). When I read the description of his behavior, those seem to fit, but not completely. So we went over his behavior from birth to present, from the observations from the 6 months that he has been seen by the Center and have discussed what it seems that he has. His therapist says that _____ is definitely ADHD, more AD than HD, that he has the beginning, or mild onset of OCD, and he could definitely be ODD. He feels that what he really has, but as he is young and it is not commonly seen, or recognized in this age, is bipolar Disorder, or Manic Depression.

One of the ways he feels that he can state that he has it, but not the only, and not the most definite, is that the meds are not totally working. They help, but the mood swings are still there, and he is so defiant!! When he gets up in the mornings he is so slow to start, and always so down, when I tell him to take his meds, he becomes angry, yelling that he will in his good time. He still has trouble focusing, When he is doing something he likes to do, he is happy, joking, and doing his work without being any trouble. But when we turn to a subject he does not like, and he has trouble instead of taking his time, he gets upset, then refuses to do it, and when I tell him he has no choice, that he is just getting further and further behind, he has at times became very angry, and when I have tried to grab his arm he just pushes me away. As he is bigger than me, I can no longer pin him down and hold him until he calms down and will listen to reason. We never know what mood he will be in, and what will cause it to change, so it is very frustrating, for all of us.

Then he has his high moments, when he is so full of energy, and is so gung-ho and positive. It is like a different person in the house. He feels that he is the best at everything, and is ready to try new stuff, he is the King of the Mountain! He can be so funny, engaging, and a joy.

We see his psychiatrist in two weeks, and will discuss with him about the possibility of this condition, and of changing his meds. What he is on helps, but not enough, and I want him to be able to do more than just survive. Pray for an accurate diagnose for him, and that we find the right meds.

On _____, we go to see his therapist this coming Monday, and I am going to ask him to give us a definite opinion of what _____'s disorders are. He has stated that he is definitely ADHD, and that he is depressed, and he has mentioned that he has impulse disorders, but not what specific types, and that he also has OCD (obsessive compulsive disorder). I am wondering if that is all. I hate to label him with names, but they help us to know what is wrong, and how to treat it. There are times when he is so defiant, and argumentative, and wont listen to reason. When he was younger, he used to lose his temper and get mad and hit me, or his sister. They still get into fights, but it is not as bad. I had just realized that since he has been on medications, they are not fighting as much. Before, when we left them to go shopping we would come home to listen to each of them tell us a different story, and she usually told us that he would physically hit her, and she would have to defend herself, and he would tell us she hit him first. She would say it was the other way, that she was defending herself, and he would run into her. We didn't know who to believe. But we haven't had that type of fighting since the meds. Have any of you noticed that there is less fighting with siblings since your child has been put on meds?

I've decided to take _____ to a neurologist and see exactly what I'm dealing with, weather it's ADD/ADHD or behavioral. I took him to the doctor yesterday to discuss what I believe is a sinus problem and several other things. I talked to her about his impulsivity, hitting his brother and sister, allbeit provoked, he has no tolerance for them, but he's pretty good with other kids - so far anyway. _____ seems to feel this may just be a phase of growing up, he remembers "beating up" (not really, but for lack of a better term) his little brother when he was _____'s age or a little older, just because "he was there". But on top of that there is a few other things that make me suspicious, I'm having a harder and harder time keeping him on task with schooling, he's still not reading, we're doing the ABeka system now, kindergarten stuff, but PTL, we're finally starting to see progress! And he still wets the bed at night. Now, all these things could be explained away, like he could be acting up and not staying on task because of allergies (however it's been getting steadily worse since before the allergy season kicked in), bedwetting is in the family, he's trying to figure out life, any number of things. But it's the combination of things that has me concerned. And he has a decreasing tolerance level for everything and everyone.

The Dr. wanted me to take him to both a physiciatrist and the neurologist. But to be extremely honest, I have a problem with physiciatrist/physcologist. I took _____ and the only child physciatrist/cologist within a reasonable distance I didn't like at all. And it gave me the creeps to take him there. And he wouldn't communicate with _____ and I. Finally when I physically would not leave, he said that he didn't think there was anything to worry about, it was basically appropriate for a child with ADHD/ADD to be like this and he'd eventually grow out of it. This I finally got after several weeks and $25 a pop. Usually for insurance, my co-pay is only $10, but with psychologist/ciatrists it's $25. So _____ and I both agree, no head Dr.'s. I don't mean to offend anyone, I'm sure there are some really great ones, but around here our experience was anything but! If James Dobson were here, I'd go to him in a heartbeat!! Oh, she WANTED me to contact the school board and have him tested by the child study team again. I explained I home school, she still felt it would be the way to go. I asserted that legally speaking it's not a good idea, as it gives them the opportunity to think they have strings to us, etc. I guess I made it clear I wasn't going to do it so she decided to refer me to the neurologist and told me to call my plan and they would direct me to the other, which I'm sure would be the same guy - thanks but no thanks!

_____'s symptoms sound exactly like a typical ADHD child, even the bedwetting. All of my children still wet the bed, except _____ because of the Imipramine (although it is an anti-depressant prescribed for _____'s ADHD, it is used to treat bedwetting -- voila, he only wets the bed about once every two weeks). Yes, bedwetting is genetic (hubby and I both suffered from this in differing degrees). We use Good Night's for _____ and _____ to keep from leaking on their beds. They usually do the job (still have some leakage occasionally). We will be praying for God's hand to be on the evaluation and any diagnosis.

_____'s new doctor called today and wanted to see him. We had turned in the Conner's evaluation and she wanted to see us today. We went in at 3:30 and were there until after 5. She says his scores were off the charts for hyperactivity and impulsiveness and borderline ODD. She did a series of neurological evaluations and he is about a year and a half ahead of what the average is. So he is ok there. She gave me some more questions to evaluate him and she has decided that he is ODD also. I don't know much about ODD so if any of you would like to share info with please do. I am going to ask her to help us with the discipline and how we should go about dealing with him now that we have some answers. She also did some tests on sequences. He would hear the numbers or the words she was saying but had a really hard time repeating them back in the correct order. She said that will really hinder his listening and understanding skills and will take a lot of work on both of our parts to help him. She gave him an EKG and took him off of Cylert........YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!

We put him back on Tofranil and this time without the mellaril so he won't have the ticks or the shakes from that and without the ritalin too!!! I could really use your prayers for him and his treatment. I finally feel like we are getting somewhere though and have a competent doctor. She has really impressed me with her thoroughness. I also went out and bought him a Focus on the Family Adventures in Odyssey Bible and asked the lady at the store if she could recommend a devotional book for him. I explained a little what we were dealing with and she reccommended the One Year Book of Devotions for Kids (Keys for Kids) I flipped through it and was happy with it.......it deals with everything from bragging to brushing your teeth it seems. So I think we will get the medicine going a bit and start with the bible study this weekend after we have time to get the Cylert out and the Tofranil in. Thanks for listening guys I needed to share with someone who understands and I'm glad you all are here.

We still have no definite direction to go with in our evalutation with ____. The psychologist will not say a definite ADD diagnosis at this time, but would like to try Ritalin just to see. I am wondering if there are any "hidden" factors that God would have brought to the surface. Do any of you feel that way sometimes? It is like, there is something that seems not quite right, not logical or something- but then maybe it's just ADD. _____, however, who does has the classic ADD/ADHDsymptoms doesn't strike me that way at all. Maybe it is because his main problems are more with distractibility and hyperactivity rather than impulse control. Oh, I don't know!!! But I will keep searching and praying to God for Him to show us what to do.

She went through the ADD with my sisters, never diagnosed, counselors called sisters lazy, doesn't apply herself, not working up to potential, etc. you've heard it all before. So mom has alot of guilt because she knew something was wrong, dragged them all over to psychologists, doctors, etc. but never got any help. (this was 40 years ago.) I told her she did all she could, especially at the time. She stil grieves some about it.

Gee, am I one of your sisters? This is the exact same words my parents heard about me!! In fact, life got really difficult after a 2nd grade teacher informed my parents that I received the highest score in the class on an IQ test and they sould expect NOTHING but straight A's from me throughout my schooling. Anything less would mean I wasn't trying.

Even worse, my friend who's son is _____'s best buddy, was told the same thing about her son for years before she got it diagnosed. You'd think after all these years, they'd have learned something!

We met with an intake counselor and a staff psychologist.

The conclusion?
(1) _____ doesn't have Asperger's (HALLELUJAH!)
(2) _____ doesn't have ADD or ADHD - huh? Reeaaaally?!?!?!?!
(3) _____ is a very *normal* child - what about his behavior?
(4) _____ is at the low end of average in everything except motor skills (he was above average there) - WHAT? He is reading at a 2nd/3rd grade reading level? I don't get it!!!

The recommendations:
(1) _____ doesn't qualify for any services
(2) Positive parenting is necessary - The example given by the staff psychologist was "If you eat your peas you will get icecream." :-/
(3) _____ should be placed in a public school kindergarten

We prayed for the truth to surface. I struggle with seeing this as truth! The two interviewers were VISIBLY unapproving of my choice to homeschool _____ and only seemed mildly relieved when the fact that I have a State Multiple Subjects Teaching Credential was mentioned. They clearly had no knowledge of what is expected or required as well as the incredible statistics available re: homeschooled kids. I was amazed and dumbfounded by their conclusions.

So, now I am left with...where to now? I feel like in March, what felt like a freeing diagnosis on the one hand -- it wasn't my parenting that was causing the problems -- is now dropped back on my lap. *They* clearly saw it as a parenting issue and began to recommend a ton of parenting classes at various hospitals and stuff. I didn't agree with the *way* the pediatric neurologist made the diagnosis...he hadn't spent time with _____. But these folks wanted us out of their faces! :(

I am seeking the Lord on this one. I am humbled. Maybe I must quit looking where I can assign blame and just be on my face much more...much MUCH more...

Any insight here?

I do know this...
(1) Friday we have an appointment with the pediatrician
(2) I will ask for a referral for an evaluation with a staff psychologist
(3) I will pray...pray...pray....and probably cry a lot, too.

Parents know the child better than healthcare officials. I believe I would keep searching for the WHOLE truth! Lack of parenting skills, my foot! I get so tired of people placing the blame on the parents! I have gotten it for years. You are NOT looking for someone to agree with your own diagnosis. You KNOW there is something mis-firing in the brain, so hang in there for the truth!

My heart goes out to you. Our family doctor suggested that _____ was ADHD, when he was in the 6th grade. I did not research it (which I should have), just took the papers he gave me, filled out our questionnaire part, gave the teacher hers. She flat out told me that _____ was not ADHD, that he was too quiet, that all he needed was some discipline, and to learn to pay attention. That he was lazy, opinionated, and needed to be taken in hand.

In the 6th grade they did not change classes, except for two of them, to get them ready for Jr. H. The other teacher, well, she refused to disagree with _____'s main teacher. I talked with her, and unfortunately, she was on probation, so she did not want to make waves and create any disagreement.

I had no knowledge, they were teachers, they should know what they were talking about and accepted their word. I was wrong, I should have checked more into it myself. Read up, and trusted my instincts, and my doctor.

The next year, _____ was so depressed, and frustrated as the ADD worsened due to puberty, that he became suicidal. When he told me that if I had not been home he would have taken a knife and have cut his wrists, I almost flipped out. I knew he had been feeling down, and was becoming depressed, but I hadn't realized that he felt that bad. We immediately sought help, and God has worked miracles in all our lives.

I told you all this to show you how the "experts" don't always know what they are talking about. You can not make a determination from just one visit, especially if you have misconceptions, which it seems that these people have. I knew that there was something "wrong" with _____, but we thought that it was the way we had raised him.

When I read up on ADD, ADHD, I was shocked, for not only did _____ fit almost every one of the requirements, but it also fit me, especially as a child. And it answered so many questions we had about his behavior, and our own. I was angry with the school, and especially with the teacher, for all that she caused. And I let the school know that if he had harmed himself, I would have held them accountable, as she refused to acknowledge that he could have it, and refused to give me any more info of the next step. I did not know that I could have asked for the school counselor to have tested him, if I did not agree with her "diagnosis". When I had asked her, she had told me that her decision was the final one.

Trust your instincts. You are his mother, you know how he acts, what his true behavior is like. Kids can act different when not at home, for at home they feel comfortable, safe, and so they are their true selves. Do you have access to a video camcorder? Film him at home, without his knowing, on good days, and bad days, then show it to the doctor. Or make an audio tape of his talking, and behavior, stating what he is doing so the hearer will know what is going on, and then let them listen to it. It can be an eye opener for doctors, as they will see and hear the true behavior of the child.

At the counseling center we took him to, the psych and therapist there took 6 weeks before they would even discuss with us possible diagnoses. Then they said that they had believed from day one that he was ADHD, and had some other disorders, but they wanted to be sure before they had stated it. I was glad they took their time, and gave an accurate diagnosis. They took another month before they stated he was OCD, and had anxiety disorders. Then, two months later, they told us he was either bipolar (manic depressant) or ODD. It was another month before they decided he was ODD.

Discuss it with your family doctor, ask him what he thinks, and trust God to show you the way. And if you feel that God wants you to homeschool, then do so. It is none of their business, he is your child.

Do not dispair, God will guide you the right way to go.

YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME! Don't let anybody tell you that! How can these people make "correct" dx's with as little time as they spend with our children? I have never understood that. I think (from what I've heard on this list) that most of these people here could diagnose our children more correctly than some psychiatrists.

Do not give up. Keep praying keep looking for the truth. 'Creative Parenting' is necessary with every child. They are all different respond differently to different types of reinforcement...but you are obviously giving it everything you have - and that's all you can do other than seek help search for the truth. If you want to homeschool - then homeschool. This is your family's decision.

It amazes me how many of us are in the same boat with the "multiple" diagnoses. Some people are so quick to label (or unlabel), when they have only met my child for the first time, or have known him a relatively short time -- and I have known him all his life. Sometimes it feels as though the "professionals" aren't even listening to what I have to say, when I know that I know him better than anyone else. They are so quick to be right about it themselves, open and shut case. Either that, or they are an extremist in their own personal views and choose to, as I see it, bury their head in the sand. Am I being rough? (I'm just irritated with it all today, I guess...)

Let's all pray for strength for each other in these situations. It really helps me to know that I'm not alone in it anyway....

Oh, how I feel for you! I have been there, sometimes still am. You are not a bad parent! If you were, would you care???????? I went through a diagnosis like that. I got a second oppinion. They saw it clearly, they spent more than 10 minutes with my child! I will keep you in our prayers and _____l. Why do they still blame parents? AAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! I need to repeat my serinity prayer a few times. At least it keeps me calm. :) Sometimes, I can even focus. :) We are here with you!

OK, Now for the update. You may remember the conflicts the Physician and I were having concerning _____ and whether he should have the testing for ADHD, ODD etc. And the thing of giving him Ritlin when he was born an addict (compliments of his mother, who was not my daughter).

Well, I got a second opinion. This one loves kids and I believe has a real concern for them. She takes care of two of my other grandchildren also. She says that absolutely, he needs to be tested so we can get a proper start for him in school. Also, she will have him tested to find out how much of the brain was stunted by his mothers addiction. We already have had some minor testing which showed that there was definite malfunctioning in various parts of the brain. A positive look at that is that he has an excellent vocabulary (I consider it a third or fourth grade level). The kid will talk your ears off. Mine are now held on by duck tape.

She suggests that once we find out how extensive the ADHD is we can then consider the best rout to take concerning meds. She also seemed to show a concern in giving him Ritalin considering his past addiction at birth.

-Also, we can get a better focus in his education by having an understanding of where he is mentally and ADHDally. She noticed (as I had a long time ago) parts of his brain are drastically overcompensating by building on his good gray matter, and showing a brilliant child, even with the deficiencies.